Membership fees

[Anita]

OK - so what does everybody think about this year's massive hike in membership fees again? On the old forum this became a very interesting thread ....

Some of the suggestions/complaints raised in last year's forum thread have obviously been listened to in that the non-competitive gymnasts pay less - but even that has still gone up! (only 50p - but it's still a rise).

However competitive Club Associate members have had a massive 43% rise from £14 to £20. I was also amazed at the hike in the joint membership - last year I paid £69 for my daughters but this year it's £98 (42% rise). Single membership is only £9 less than I paid for joint last year. :confused:Anybody know what the current rate of inflation is?

And clubs - make sure you have no more than 150 members because that extra one will cost you £100 more! (I'm sure they could have come up with a better sliding scale than that ....)

I like the idea of the temporary (13 week) membership which can then be "upgraded" to CA: it means people can try gymnastics out and pay the rest if they stay.

OK - over to you guys for your opinions etc ....

[Gingerheid]

Oh no :( Not again :mad:

Has full membership had a massive rise too? :eek:

And have BG provided justification for such a rise? I don't immediately see any in terms of the service provided, but maybe I've been looking in the wrong place. What will they do for me that they didn't do before?

How did they think the club thing was supposed to work? I wouldn't want to be the 151st person to turn up at the door. :confused:

Credit where it's due, the temporary membership thing sounds like a good idea.

(Current rate of inflation? Depends who you ask;

National Chainstore: up to -50%
Gordon Brown: The lowest level for decades
Local Council: About 10-13%
Estate Agent: 25%
BG: 43%?)

PS - On a slightly related note: In Scotland I had to pay two memberships, I also had to join Scottish Gymnastics. Is there something similar on the go in England, or is the one enough down here?

PPS - Helen. I definitely want that club database now if that's what we're going to be paying!

[Anita]

At the moment people in England only pay the BGA membership but that may change in the future with the setting up of "English Gymnastics" (if it happens).

Gingerheid yes full membership has had a large rise also but can't remember what it was last year but if joint membership was £68 then it was probably somewhere in the region of £45.

I think they need to tell us where the money goes and to what benefit it is to the members (the only thing they really mention in the "Membership" section is about the insurance and, last time, people said it wasn't just about insurance .... so the BGA need to give more information).

[peter edge]

Well I started a "get it off your chest" thread bemoaning the fact of dual membership fees, but I can see Sport England pulling funding if they don`t set up an english version. More money in the BG coffers![the way we are taxed, is BG run by the Labour party? Lol!]

[Gingerheid]

I've read the statement now - and I'm a bit more worried than I was before. If BG are going to try to plug the gap from possible loss of millions of pounds of funding each year through our pockets - it's not possible. Where would we be in five years time? 03/04-£46 04/05-£60 05/06-£78 06/07-£101.40...

I'm also a bit worried by the idea that we're paying for a more professional BG - is that what an amateur sport really needs? It appears that in part we risk paying for more people to make up lots of nice rules and policy statements that are ill-fitting replacements for common sense and serve only to make it harder for clubs to survive.

They may not be getting run by the Labour party, but they way they are run is certainly being strongly influenced by a government that likes to make things overcomplicated and beaurocratic. (ie the English Gymnastics idea...) I hope the amount of money they do still get from the government is large enough that it is worthwhile going to such expense to get it.

The value for money seems exceedingly poor now. The subscription is fast approaching what I pay to Accounting bodies, and I feel they do more for me for the money.

(Peter - Oops, yes. I remember that thread now. Must have been suffering from that short term memory what d'you call it thingy.)

[peter edge]

noticed your location has changed, hope your move went as smoothly as a smooth thing, did you manage to find somewhere to train?
Cheers Pete.

[Anita]

re: annual subscriptions - I still think that a "staggered" annual subscription would be a good idea. Remember the complete farce on BG getting the packs out last year? (still think they would be sending them on-mass to clubs to hand out - less postage, envelopes, times .......).

The "staggered" subscription could be quarterly (January, April, July & October), ie if a child joins your club in February their subscription would run from January to December, if joining in June then from April to March etc. Yes they will still have to send out the same amount of packs but not all at the same time - it will be spread throughout the year. BG wouldn't have to bother with the "half year's" subscription with is a lot more than half the annual fee. Worth thinking about - it could be brought in before the next annual review of fees.

The good thing with the "temporary subscription" is that people who join clubs in August will only need to pay £7.50 (instead of the "half year" fee of £11.50) and if they join in September the six week temporary subscription of £4.00 - if I've interpreted it right then that's possible and is a much better alternative.:) If not .......:mad: .

[Gingerheid]

Anita - I like the idea of the staggered membership from the money point of view.

Though BG possibly get a discount at the printers for doing four times as many renewal forms as once?

Pete - Thanks! Indeed - I've smoothly moved 400 odd miles south towards the nice weather and a bigger salary!

But towards less trampolining it seems. I've found a place here for one hour a week (on holiday until September :( ), but I'm looking for a second night somewhere else. There seem to be lots of adult classes around (Oxford, Holton, Milton Keynes, Reading...), but what I'm actually needing is a car to get to them (or back from them)!

I actually hadn't really been bouncing myself very much, I'm not a lot of use ;) Previously I bounced one night and went to {try and} help out two nights. Need to start getting used to not being doing that...

[Helen Webb]

Hi Gingerheid

With regards to a club database, there is a possibility that we will be getting a new 'all singing & dancing' database in the near future as part of the modernisation process.

So watch this space and i will put your comments forward.

Helen

[Dave]

Just been reading everyones views on this and im looking at it from another angle and that is a lot of the smaller gym clubs will have to close or somehow struggle to recruit more gymnasts just to stay open, this price increase will surely cause many of these clubs to close as the parents will not be able to pay such costs.... In a world where the younger generation are finding other activities( Computers, Playstations etc ) to do instead of gymnastics im sure the number of members will be dropping soon if it hasn't already happened... I dont think BGA are being very fair to those parents who dont have a lot of money and will be forced to pull there kids out of Gymnastics due to price increases every year.....

[Lucy]

Maybe someone will spot the gap and start up a rival assoc. That would be confusing. Were other sports swallowed up by BG or was it just trampolining?

[Stephy]

so what exactly will we be getting for the extra we pay a year or is it just an increase for us with nothing in return?! To be honest I dont think we get much for what we pay anyway- is it supposed to be that you get good insurance because I don't think thats true. Dont you have to pay out for medical treatment and then BG will decide whether or not they will pay out after you've had the treatment and payed the bills. I could be wrong:confused: (correct me if I am!) but that doesnt seem like good insurance. You should be covered for certain things like accidents under safe BG training conditions and there should be a limit to how much they will pay out depending on the seriousness of whats happened. Its no good having insurance that you cant rely on.

I understand that BG need to make money to put it back into the sport but there are more ways than just increasing membership fees. I totally agree with what someone said earlier (sorry can't remember who it was!) about some parents not being able to afford it. BG need to be looking at gaining more members not putting people off through expenses- more people you have participating in gymnastics the more top gymnasts you'll get from it (its like a pyramid-bigger the base bigger the top)

[Jen]

Coaches certainly are now getting LESS cover for an insane amount of MORE money.

We now wont be covered if coaching in an establishment that isnt related in some way to BG.......

Which to me is half the point of having personal liability insurance through BG.

Which then leads on to having to take out more insurance elsewhere, as BG wont provide, yet still having to be a BG member to be able to coach in BG clubs! Has anyone found a way we can just get our own insurance and not be members of BG?

Im also not attached to a club at the moment, but need the insurance cover, which means paying the membership fee myself, £60 is a huge increase to expect an in debt student to afford each year!

Grrrr BG im not impressed

[Anita]

I think these provisos of theirs for this insurance business is very "grey"

Recognised Environments would include any:-
· British Gymnastics Registered Club
· Local Education Authority i.e. School / College / University
· Health Authority i.e. Hospital / Rehabilitation Centre / Primary Care Trust
· Public Body – CCPR / Sports Councils etc.
· Local Authority i.e. County Council / District Council / City Council
· Leisure Centre run by Local Authority
· Private Leisure Centre registered with BG under their Leisure Centre schemeIf my daughter, a BGA qualified coach who will be taking out full membership again this year (she's a student and has to pay it herself) coaches in our club which runs out of a sports centre will she be insured? :confused:

The club will be registered but we don't have our own premises, the Leisure Centre is run by a private, non profit-making, company and not the local authority (although it does have LA funding I believe). Would we be covered or does this mean we've to persuade the centre to take out registration under the BG scheme which they'd probably charge us for as it's, technically for our benefit. This would mean the club will be "paying" twice to be BG members!:mad:

We'd like to run a class from another sports centre nearby which is privately run but attached to a school although not owned by the school; it is governed by a board of trustees. Would the coaches be covered there?

Coaches working in any facility that is not under the governance of British Gymnastics for example unregistered Leisure Centres, church halls, youth clubs, private unregistered clubs are NO LONGER covered by their BG Insurance.
Does this only apply to coaches not registered with a club? If a club is registered and runs out of a church hall are they covered? How many clubs will have to close because they run out of halls and can't be covered by their BG insurance even though the club is registered as are it's coaches - because that's how this reads.

BG - please clarify this as it's VERY confusing!!:eek:

[Sue]

This will presumably also mean that we will need to check the status of premises before we can accompany gymnasts to competitions if the competition is held in a leisure centre, for example - you can't tell whether a leisure centre is privately run, registered, etc without making enquiries. Presumably private schools aren't included, as they wouldn't come under the LEA.

Further, this probably means that coaches accompanying gymnasts to displays won't be covered - we've done displays in shopping centres, football fields and other places that are clearly not on the list.

[DJC]

Good on you Anita, I knew you'd start a thread about this :) Ah, the biggest ever thread on the old forum is back. A few big names missing from the discussion though :( Briefly on inflation, RPI was 3.0% last month, alot different to the rise made on my competitive CA membership.

[Anita]

DJC - couldn't resist!:) At least they've listened and made some good minor adjustments to the scheme (the 13 week bit) but the rest :eek: .

Sue - good points there. I'm going to have to check that one out because we're holding a Regional competition in a Leisure Centre in November that I'm organising ..... and about the displays too because our club do them every summer (usually in LEA schools so that's OK) - but we did one for something called the "Try Angle" awards (quite big in Kent) which are awards given to children by the local councils who have achieved various things in different fields (ie achievement in sport, music, environmental etc). I believe it's due to be televised in the Meridian TV region in November. This was held in The Winter Gardens in Margate (don't know whether you call it a theatre but it has a stage, a couple balconies, some banked seating and a dance floor/hall - they hold pantos & put on shows there).

[Gingerheid]

I don't follow it either. Initially I thought that if a club was a BG recognised environment, then that club would be able to take it's activities anywhere with it (even Anytown Shopping Centre and Anytown Football Fields).

I don't understand the Local Authority Leisure Centre / Private Leisure Centre thing. Aren't they all privately managed now? Or is that just all the council areas (North Ayrshire / City of Edinburgh / Bucks) I've ever lived in?

What is BG influence anyway, and how do we know that they do have it over all the specified locations (like hospitals and PCT premises)? Presumably these new regulations have lengthy further refinement on the way! As they stand, the gym of the nearest private school is off bounds, yet the waiting room in the health centre is ok :confused: Anita - you could move those lessons to your work instead of the private place! :D

I think they have indeed created a nice little grey area. But at least they've realised, and they're charging us more for legal fees too as a result :(

If all this is a sign of the more professional BG to come, I think amateur was fine for an amateur sport. We don't need professional, it doesn't benefit us, and we can't afford it anyway.

[DJC]

If all this is a sign of the more professional BG to come, I think amateur was fine for an amateur sport. We don't need professional, it doesn't benefit us, and we can't afford it anyway.
I agree with that. This is a lowly-funded sport from any sort of organisation, and just can't afford to go professional at the moment. As for the benefits, I haven't read enough of the articles and points yet, so I'm unsure what they would be :o

[Jackie]

Hi everyone

As my daughter has now officially retired from gymnastics because of back problems but is working as an assistant club coach once a week for three hours will she still have to pay BG fees? Would appreciate any advice because if she does it will not be worth her working anymore!!!

Thanks.
Jackie

[Gingerheid]

Uhm, she may be under the LEL for Tax and NI, but not BAGA membership! If she's coaching then I take it she needs the insurance, thus membership. :(

On a related point, I'm not actually coaching at the moment. Does anyone know I have to keep paying full membership to retain the qualification, or could I go down to associate until I start again (if ever...).

[Sue]

Assistant coaches are only required to have associate membership so your daughter could go down to the lower level, Jackie.

There is nothing in the handbook that explains whether you retain your level of coaching qualification if you don't have membership (or the right level of membership) for a period of time - try asking the membership department (give them yet another challenge - I'm presently trying to find out how they expect me to classify 6 year olds who compete in "county" competitions - are they "competitive gymnasts" as far as membership is concerned or can they be "non-competitive" as they are too young, by BGA's own definition to do full competitions even though in practice many of them do).

[Laura]

Assistant coaches are only required to have associate membership so your daughter could go down to the lower level, Jackie.
I'm not sure about this, I know I used to have associate membership but when I passed my coaching exam I had to upgrade to something else, direct membership or something :confused:

[Jackie]

Thanks for the info everyone. I expect someone at the club will advise us when we have to pay money so we will wait and see!

[Anita]

Assistant Coaches only pay associate membership - full membership is liable when you become a club coach.

[Chris Adams]

:( Here we go again! The Membership increases at British Gymnastics is unacceptable once again, how did they work out this club registration fee? What sliding scale did they use? £180 just to register your club with 151 members or more is a total rip off, no wonder clubs are not registering their gymnasts.

:) As humans we all try to get the cheapest deal whether we are buying petrol at the pumps, music at the shops. I think that clubs should shop around for a better deal than BG.

One person has already said in this thread that they wish there was another organisation set up against BG. Perhaps this will happen soon & BG will have to reduce its prices or go under itself.

BG talks about its Government grants being frozen since 1998, this is not the members of BG's fault, it is BG not pressing harder for these grants.

What is the situation with Mum's & Toddlers sessions, Ive been told that we have to affiliate these by Mr Sommerville, I told him we will not be affiliating them! They are not members of our club they are just casual users. I believe its all just greedy at the end of the day.

We are not getting anything extra for these increases so why should we pay extra?

Not impressed British Gymnastics at all!

[Lucy]

I didn't wish for another organisation I mourned the passing of one (the BTF)and wondered if other disciplines originally had seperate organisations as well as trampolining. I didn't have to deal with much official stuff then but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that complicated or expensive!

[Gingerheid]

Ahhhh. The good old BTF :) There could be a subject for a poll there, but I doubt BG would appeciate :rolleyes: , and it is their website...

What is the situation with Mum's & Toddlers sessions, Ive been told that we have to affiliate these by Mr Sommerville, I told him we will not be affiliating them! They are not members of our club they are just casual users. I believe its all just greedy at the end of the day.

Where a club owns it's premises, BG can't advance a credible argument that all users of those premises should be BG members. (Clubs will often have floor surfaces that will find favour with Keep Fit / Judo instructors...)

Clearly a mums and tots class is more playgroup than gym club. If BG want to be awkward and require you to make the legal separation, then although an irritating waste of time, it won't actually be too difficult.

[Angela Williams]

Im from a small club in the South Wales valleys and its highly likely that when we inform parents of the huge increases then we are going to lose a lot of gymnasts. And what exactly are our rec gymnasts gaining from BG? They can get insurance through their Welsh Gymnastics membership (which is also compulsory for them!!). If BG is committed to developing the sport this is simply going to have a counteractive effect.

[Angela Williams]

BG is promoting "more gymnasts, more clubs, more medals." LOL!!!!

[Jen]

So has anyone looked into this - could we get insurance from elsewhere and then not be members of BG at all? Does this work or do we then lose our qualifications etc?

Only really consider the possibility, as I get the feeling this isnt going to be the last increase in membership/decrease in cover from BG. And ive still got many years I intend to coach for!

[Gingerheid]

So has anyone looked into this - could we get insurance from elsewhere and then not be members of BG at all? Does this work or do we then lose our qualifications etc?

Only really consider the possibility, as I get the feeling this isnt going to be the last increase in membership/decrease in cover from BG. And ive still got many years I intend to coach for!

You are at BG's mercy if:
- you want to enter people in BG competitions
- you want to be involved in a club that is BG registered (they wouldn't be allowed to have you there...)

It would only be worthwhile to start to look away from BG if all you did was coach at a low level in a purely recreational setting, in premises that aren't covered by BG any more. Somebody in these circumstances is likely going to have to take a second lot of insurance anyway. As long as that insurer doesn't want them to be a member of BG, it then depends whether the person thinks they get anything from the BG membership, apart from the insurance that won't cover them.

I suppose it would be a bit of homework for anyone that wanted to find out, but I don't think BG would be too happy if they advertised the answer here :)

And alas, I too thought the statement didn't do much to make the increases / cut backs sound like a one off. They look like they are going to carry on making gymnastics into something where people only doing things for fun will find it harder to cling on :(

[Vivien Gourlay]

The BGA Membership information is 5 pages long!!!! It was bad enough before explaining to parents etc what and why with membership of SGA and BGA. Isn't it going to be fun this year?

I agree with all everybody here has said and I am in a pickle because we have a small routine being done by the little group from the Youth Club helped along by some of the Gymnastics Club gymnasts, to be done at the end of September. This is to promote the Youth Club and try to get people to volunteer to come and help in whatever way they can. As I have explained in the Thread "Child Protection Issues - membership" out Youth Club will not survive unless we can encourage youngsters to come to the club this new year. Gymnastics is one of the clubs that we can offer with good floor kit and vault. We have received some local grant money and bought new equipment to try and encourage youngsters to earn their BGA proficiency badges. What a farce! I may as well stop now as we will not encourage anybody to come along when it is going to cost them an arm and a leg for 1.5 hours a week.

God knows what it will actually cost us once the SGA get their cut.


Vivien

[Jen]

Good point gingerheid, forgot about the competition entering bit. So we all have no choice but to be BG members whatever they say or do.

Only other option is to skip the country. Anyone want to come set up a gymnastics club/governing body in mongolia?

Seriously though, this may be another thing to add to my list of reasons why living in 'Great' Britain isnt that great an idea.

[Vivien Gourlay]

I am under the impression that our Governing Body has not been aware of the Membership Information printed on the BGA web site until a number of people have been asking difficult questions about their Membership and Insurance status in Scotland.

Don't tell me that all of this has been decided upon without consultation with the Home Nations - Wales, Scotland and Ireland? I know we are "just another region" to most people but we have to abide by a complete new set of rules and constitutions over and above what the BGA impose and we have, for years been paying, as coaches and clubs, membership to SGA and then to BGA.

Now that you are all going to have to recognise the "English Gymnastics Association" I wonder if you will all be asked to pay membership fees to this body as well as the BGA.

This has been around for a long time and it is about time that they all got their heads together and sorted it out because we now have the UKSport running the show. I would really like to see how this all pans out and who is answerable to whom?

Can anyone explain?

[Vivien Gourlay]

OKay Jen

I am going to look at the Sports Coach UK web site and find out what their membership is now. I always held this until a couple of years ago when they put it up to £70 for the year. I decided that I could not afford to pay that, the SGA Membership and the BGA Membership. As the BGA offered insurance it would have been double indemnity anyway. Anyhow, I think I will have to reinstate myself as they offered Civil Liability insurnace with their membership.

I will check it out and see what they have on offer.

Vivien

[Vivien Gourlay]

WWW.sportscoachuk.org (http://www.sportscoachuk.org) - they have a number of membership deals and their individual membership cost £73 per annum. It give you a good insurance deal as well as other benefits. You have to hold a current NGB coaching award to be a member but I wonder if you have to be a member of the National Governing Body to be a member. I have an up-to-date qualification (or was at the last count). If I did not renew my membership with the BGA this year and paid the sportscoach one, this would enable me to coach gymnastics in my youth club and be covered by their insurance. Certainly, it would mean that my registered club would not be able to enter competitions unless someone else with the relevant coaching award and a member of the BGA went on the floor with them.

I was just thinking of this as an exercise and maybe if I could spread the cost of the £73 amongst the members of the Youth Club, it would be cheaper to do this and hold BGA membership as well. Then the children in the Youth Club would not require to pay out two or three types of membership in order to participate in gymnastics.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

[Anita]

I was informing our head coach of the new fees and she was stunned by it - we're probably going to lose members (and potential members) again this year because of this. Our club affiliates to the BGA and she's hoping we didn't have more than 150 members last year because it will cost the club £180 if we had 151+ as opposed to £80 for up to 150 (what a crazy "step" between the two).

At the moment the "step" in fees for clubs is £20 for up to 50 members, £80 for 51-150 members and £180 for 151+.

I know Scotland, Wales & Ireland are classed as "regions" and that clubs have to affiliate to them, as do clubs in the English Regions - the only advantage we have is that the gymnasts themselves don't have to pay anything to the region. ie our club have to affiliate to the BGA and the South East Region - they also have to affiliate to our County if they want to compete in Kent (but Kent don't put on any acro competitions anymore so we don't bother because we'd get nothing for our money!).

[Vivien Gourlay]

I seems to be that they are hitting us everywhichway. We pay a Club Membership fee that is extortionate and if in a Home Nation we pay a Club membership fee to the Home Association as well.

The gymnasts pay an affiliation fee to the Home Nation as well which is dearer than the British one but then they get a joint membership? Will that continue this year I wonder?

SGA did away with the pre-school membership fee. I wonder if we are still covered with the insurance to coach pre-school classes? Will it mean that we will have to register all pre-schoolers with the BGA to get insurance cover with our coaches membership?

The question go on an on. Did anyone in BGA actually sit down and think about how this system is going to work and how it affects clubs?

Vivien

[Chris Adams]

As Oliver Hardy would say" Well heres another fine mess BGA youve got us all into" & the reply from Stan Laurel would be "Well I did'nt think about the outcome & hardship.....crying....."

As everybody is beginning to understand the real effects of BGA new membership scheme, people are at last begininng to speak out!

At our club, I'm the Head Coach of the competition squads, the parents dont mind too much about the increase which now stands at £20 for Competition Affiliation gymnasts. This is because they get something for their money.

The 1 hour a weekers dont get alot for £14.50. It just keeps going up & up! Where's it going to stop? BGA are putting people off from affiliating instead of reducing General Affiliation Fees.

But our Trustees have called a EGM on September 13th 2004 about BGA Membership. I know that they may kick out the competition Squads! Has anyone got a home for us to train? The Trustees are furious about the hike in BGA fees all around, not just gymnasts affiliations but also coaches affiliations & also this one off club registration fee, its just getting silly & greedy. I tried to explain to one of the Trusttees about this £180 one off fee.......She told me it was a total rip off & for what?

The Trusttee then told me that she didnt have to pay the National Swimming Association an affiliation fee to go swimming so why do people have to pay one to BG?

Our admin lady phoned Alan Sommerville last week about the toddler situation, & still no reply to this yet. He said that all clubs must register their toddlers to BGA & pay £7.50 per child. We have already told him that they are casual users, but he said they still have to pay?

As a coach I am completely fed up of this situation with BGA, I just want to coach & produce great gymnasts but I am constantly sick to the teeth of the BGA Membership Scheme!

If anyone wants a good set of coaches & gymnasts please let me know. E-Mail me:- Lynxgym@aol.com

[Chris Adams]

Just found the letter BGA sent to us all last year 2003 on Fee increases. Just to let everyone know heres a comparison with this years fee increases just in case you dont know already:-

2003 PRICES___________________________2004 PRICES

Coaches

FULL MEMBER £46-------------------------------------->£60
JOINT MEMBERS £69------------------------------------>£98

Gymnasts

ASSOCIATE GEN GYM £14.00-------------------->£14.50
ASSOCIATE COMPETITIVE £14.00-------------------->£20.00

CLUB REGISTRATION

1-50 £10.00------------------------------------------>£20.00
50-151 £20.00---------------------------------------->£80.00
151+ £30.00----------------------------------------->£180.00


Some increases are 600% on last year! I hope every club in the land writes a strong letter to British Gymnastics about this. This is not acceptable, no wonder BGA are losing members!

[Elliot]

Damnit!! This means that judges have to pay more of their hard earned cash to BG to be allowed to judge. Then they have to give up a full day of their valuable time and they don't even get paid a penny for all their hard work!!Hmph!!

[Anita]

Chris - didn't know last year's figures with regard to clubs. What a hike - especially for clubs with 151 members - £150 :eek: . That's extortionate! Many clubs will end up having to put their own fees up to help cover the cost, especially those that hire premises because the hire rates go up all the time.

Elliot - if you only judge it's 50p rise (still a cheek though!). If I judge at regional competitions I get paid expenses (travel) but don't expect to get paid for friendly/invitational/club competitions: that I do for love & experience!:p .

[Gingerheid]

Just found the letter BGA sent to us all last year 2003 on Fee increases.
And bear in mind that the 2003-2004 prices were not cheap, and did come after more horrible increases...

Over the last few years there has been a sustained period of horrible increases; let's turn the clock back a bit further:

.................................................. .............Increase............
Coaches...............96/97....00/01.....04/05.....97 to 01..01 to 05
Full Member..........£35.50...£37.......£60........4.2% .......62.2%
Joint Members.......£46.......£53.......£98........15.2% .....84.9%

Gymnasts..............96/97.....00/01....04/05..........................
A. Gen Gym...........£8.80.....£9.50....£14.50....8%..... ....52.6%
A. Competitive.......£8.80.....£9.50....£20.00....8%. ........110.5%
Pre-School............£4.75....£5.00.....£7.50.....5.3 %.......50.0%
Average........................................... .........8.1%.......72%

Source:
http://web.archive.org/web/19980709091655/www.baga.co.uk/member.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20010211153006/www.baga.co.uk/Membership/member.htm

On average prices went up 8.1% over the four year period to 2001, yet 72% over the next four years

[Chris Adams]

:mad: I think people are now realising the price hikes by British Gymnastics, I think that Gingerheid's info on old years is very interesting indeed. Gingerheid even has the BGA Membership pages from the years gone by...just brilliant!

MEMBERSHIP PRICES - YEARS GONE BY
http://web.archive.org/web/19980709091655/www.baga.co.uk/member.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20010211153006/www.baga.co.uk/Membership/member.htm

The one hike that gets me is the Club Registration Fee. This is totaly out of order, it has gone up 600% from last year & what do you get for it? NOTHING!

£30.00 for 151+ members & now £180.00 for the same members!
The bigger clubs have to put up their own fees again?

[Gingerheid]

web.archive.org has a very interesting 'history of the internet', and various BAGA homepages are available at http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.baga.co.uk (not all of them work though).

It has to be searched on URL though - does anyone remember the url of BAGA's 'official' site in 2002? I always used baga, even through the 'I-sport' phase and till date...

But anyway, overall and allowing for inflation, I'd be suggesting that we should be expecting BG to do 40% to 590% more for us. Are they? :confused: And even if they did, could we afford it?

And if BG want judges to hold membership, would it not seem quite fair that membership for someone who only needs it because of being a judge should be free?

[Chris Adams]

:eek: EXTRA MONEY ? EXTRA WHAT?

We havent had a reply from Helen Webb yet of BGA, we havent heard nothing from the gods in the BGA towers about the hikes? The letter sent out to clubs with the Gymnast Magazine would have really wound everyone up by now & if the penny has'nt dropped yet it soon will as those Club Affiliation packs drop through everyones letterboxes! 600% increase on Club Registration Fee is just not funny! They must think that we the members are yellow.

Are we allowed to call an EGM on these fees? What do the rules say? Anyone know?

Just looked at an iteresting Trampolining site:-
http://welcome.to/trampolining

Take a look at their FORUM, people there are not happy about the new BGA fees, the forum is eay to post as you dont need activation. Many replies on this forum say that people shouldnt renew their BGA membership!

[Lucy]

Unfortunately I want to continue my coach ed up another couple of levels at least so I can see no option but to pay the extortionate fees. I just hope that BG sees sense and reassesses the price hikes and brings them back down to real and practical levels before they drive everyone away. :(

[Chris Adams]

Just got back tonight from Lilleshall & EVERYONE'S talking about the new membership fees especially the Registration Club Fee & also the Coaches new fees from January 1st 2005.

Its a hot topic with everyone at the moment, Our Trusttees have voiced their objections to BGA, no one has phoned us yet, what a surprise!

I would urge all clubs to write a complaint letter to BGA about these rises. If you dont BGA will keep putting up & up & up......where will it stop?

[KayJ]

Wow this is a hot thread, have you seen how many "views" there have been on here (it was 1,134 views before I came on)!!!!!

[DJC]

Oh yes, it's always going to be a popular thread. On the Old Forums (http://www.british-gymnastics.org/forum/) this was the most viewed and replied to thread ever I think. Here's a link to the Old BGA Membership Fee's Thread (http://www.british-gymnastics.org/forum/read.php?TID=411). It has some interesting points which could be bought into this new discussion. That thread had 156 replies, and 4 420 views! This one currently has 49 replies, and 1 136 views.

[Gingerheid]

All this is despite the fact that it is harder to post on this forum. People are likely to be less bothered to post now that they have to go to the trouble of finding their BAGA card and wait to register.

I was having a look at the old thread the other day too. The first thing I noticed was that this time around there seems to be less people around to say anything consolatory to BG.

The second thing I noticed was that this time around there is also less in the way of anyone from BG coming here to defend the extra fees they are charging or the reasoning behind the increases (despite the fact that they are much larger). Helen did mention that the extra £300000 they'd applied for on top of the increase in membership fees may see them able to create a club database, though I so think it needs done now I'd gladly do it for them for nothing if they give me the information.

[Lucy]

Maybe you can get them to give you free membership for a few years in return for sorting out a database for them!
Though being a sizeable organisation they are far more likely to employ another company to stuff it up for them...at great expense to us!
I suggest you send in a tender for the job, I'll do a bit of data input for you if you get it! :p

[Helen Webb]

Hi Gingerheid

I think that you have misquoted me, the post that i added on 19th July (see below) does not mention any figures.
Thanks
Helen


"Hi Gingerheid

With regards to a club database, there is a possibility that we will be getting a new 'all singing & dancing' database in the near future as part of the modernisation process.

So watch this space and i will put your comments forward.

Helen"

[Gingerheid]

Sorry. I didn't believe I had misrepresented the situation. I didn't claim to "quote your exact words" by making use of use quotation boxes or marks, but was drawing on two sources to create a summary of the situation as I understood it existed.

British Gymnastics is currently bidding to the UK Sport Modernisation Fund for a £300K IT and Database project to replace MISYS and provide on-line registration for members and Clubs. The new system will greatly reduce the time and effort in processing membership applications, and will make available virtually any information members would like British Gymnastics to provide. (my bold type)

I presumed (incorrectly?) that this was the same modernisation process as referred to in your post as:
a possibility that we will be getting a new 'all singing & dancing' database in the near future as part of the modernisation process.
What I said:
Helen did mention that the extra £300000 they'd applied for on top of the increase in membership fees may see them able to create a club databasewould of course have been correct in the general terms in which I made the statement if they had been the same project. Although you mentioned the effect (the modernisation process) rather than the £300000, the £300000 cost would have been the enabling cause of that same effect.

I presume I am therefore wrong in making the connection between the modernisation process relating to IT that you mentioned, and the BG statement mentioning a similar IT modernisation project (and the £300000 cost of that), please accept my apologies. (But I'd hoped £300000 would be enough to cover doing both!!!!!:eek: How much are they spending on computers?:confused: )

At least if they're not the same project, then we won't need to wait until October 2005 (source - BG Statement (http://www.british-gymnastics.org/cms/publish/article_608.shtml)giving aim for go live date of the £300000 project), which is a long way away:) ! When do you expect the database to be up and running? I hopes it's the very near future, as there's still lots of posts appearing from people looking for clubs!

My original aim in making that statement in the post had been to draw attention to the one positive change I can see. Making available (to those who have a computer, but thankfully here we all do!) virtually any information members would like British Gymnastics to provide is an advantage of all the changes being made that shone through from the statement. But it is a small one at great expense. And I'd still glady do what I thought was the important bit for nothing:).

[*Sarah*]

I would urge all clubs to write a complaint letter to BGA about these rises. If you dont BGA will keep putting up & up & up......where will it stop?
Being realistic, is it going to make any difference if everyone writes and complain? Unfortunately, they have us over a barrel!

[Gingerheid]

You can but try. Undoubtedly it won't make a difference this time. But it does remove the opportunity for them to use the 'I don't know why you're complaining - you're the only one' type of argument. And who knows, it may make them think twice before doing it yet again next year.

They have certain types of members over a barrel. But not all, and perhaps not even close to a majority - and clubs can put BG over a barrel too!

[Helen Webb]

Hi Gingerheid


Sorry, I didn't realise that there was another post referring to the new computer system.

I am not involved in the purchasing and setting up of the system, so do not know the intricate details, including the cost of such a system.

Thanks
Helen

[Deanna]

Interesting views on the new Membership rates.

I have a very basic problem: how to decide which gymnasts are "competitive"!

Yes, I have seen BG's lovely flow diagram leading you to the answer and interestingly excluding County & Regional F&V gymnasts.

In our County, we have introduced a basic Level 5 4-Piece Competition for up-and-coming gymnasts: floor, basic vault, benches and single set bar routine. It's been going for years now and is very well supported as the first county comp. most gymnasts enter.

These gymnasts only compete in the County at this level, BEFORE entering County F&V.

So would these gymnasts have to be counted as "competitive" and pay an extra £6, whereas team-mates who moved up from this comp. to do F&V pay an extra 50p??!!

Also, we have several Assistant Club Coaches and I'm totally unclear if any of them should subscribe as Competitive Direct Associates! When does this apply??!

Any suggestions welcomed!

[Anita]

My interpretation (must admit I've not seen the flow chart - where can I view it?) of this was:

Competitive gymnasts are those that compete in any competition outside their own club. In other words friendlies, invitationals, County and Regional regardless of whether it's artistic, F&V, acro, tumbling, rhythmic etc. Because they are competing in a competition!

Non-competitive gymnasts are those that only take part in gymnastic activities within their own club.

The same applies to ACC's - if they still compete then they pay the competitive gymnast rate, if they don't they pay the non-competitive rate.

[Deanna]

Thanks for the response Anita.

The flow chart was sent to me from BG as Club Secretary (for my sins!). I presume BG would send you a copy of the flow chart if you asked them nicely!!

It clearly states that F&V gymnasts DO NOT need to pay the competitive rate - hence my query regarding our own local competition below this level.

[Cathy King]

What difference does it make if someone is competing in floor and vault???? Why do they not class as a competitive gymnast???

Why should my 5 year old pay £20 to do 3 / 4 trampoline comps in a year, when her 10 year old friend can pay £14.50 for gymnasts?

There is no sense to this structure as far as I can see

[Gingerheid]

I wouldn't complain about that too much, or next year they will charge the ten-year old friend more too, to make things 'fair'!

The last few posts actually brought an old memory to the front of my mind.

On last years membership fees threads, a lot of posts related to the suggestion that non-competitive members should be able to pay a reduced Direct Associate fee.

Much was made of the difficulty differentiating between competitive and non-competitive members in order to charge some a lower fee:

Source:
Compete or Participate?
... Festivals, Gymnaestrada and Displays don't compete. We (BG) have many clubs who exsist only to perform and some at very high level. An example or two "Dako's Flying Angels" " Riverside" and many others. ... Don't let competition cloud the membership issue. The majority of people who get the benefits of membership are "General Gymnasts"

Where there's a will there's a way, and I see with regret that it has been easier for BG to find that will this year, but for the different purpose of charging some people significantly more.

[Anita]

I remember those discussions well Gingerhied - as I was one of those who advocated non-competitive gymnasts (especially those only havin fun for an hour a week) paying less than those who compete.

Cathy - the main reasoning behind those suggestions is that competitive gymnasts tend to get more/higher level coaching then non-competitive gymnasts. My suggestion, which was reiterated by many others, was that the fun session gymnasts pay less (ie reduce that). I have no objection to paying more for my children who compete than friends who children only attend an hour or two a week for fun purely because they get more out of it.

With regard to gymnasts who perform in "Festivals, Gymnaestrada and Displays" etc - even though it's not a competition - I feel should be classed as competitive because they are the club's squad members as opposed to recreational/fun session gymnasts and take part in professionally organised gymnastic activities outside their club.

Your child does compete so is therefore a competitive gymnast as opposed to someone who spends an hour a week in the club for fun.

[Cathy King]

Anita

I don't mind paying extra for my daughter to compete, however what I object to is floor and vault gymnasts paying less? As this level is a competition in itself, or are BG suggesting that this is regarded as recreational?
The ten year old I mentioned does compete at floor and vault, therefore according to BG structure chart, she gets the reduced rate.

All my club members have the same quality coaching and time available to them if they wish to train 5 days a week, they can, even if they are at Grade 6 Trampolining. However most opt to train less than that. As I do not operate an 'elitist' training system, Grade 6 to Grade 2 all train together with the same coaches and equipment.

And Gingerheid, we have adults in our club too. But we are a bit too far away for you me thinks.

As usual BG have confused everyone by introducing a complex structure, which could have been made simpler, recreational & Non-competitive / competitive at any level. Then all coaches and administrators would be able to work out who is to pay what.

[Anita]

posted by Cathy. As usual BG have confused everyone by introducing a complex structure, which could have been made simpler, recreational & Non-competitive / competitive at any level. Then all coaches and administrators would be able to work out who is to pay what.
Cathy - I agree with you there. I haven't seen the flow chart but honestly thought that anyone who competes at any level or type of competition is competitive! Think BGA need to re-look at that and/or make it clearer.

[Sue]

I have finally had an answer from BGA on the question of novice competitions - if it is part of a county competition then it counts as "county level" even if they are not competing for a county title. So most of my younger gymnasts will therefore not compete in county competitions from now on (except floor and vault) though they can compete in club competitions even though these will have exactly the same routines as their "novice" competition would have. Silly, isn't it? This means, as well, that there will no longer be the opportunity for recreational gymnasts in other clubs in our county to do even one 3 piece or 6 piece competition for the boys or a 4 piece for the girls a year as that would automatically upgrade them to "competitive".

I'm glad that I don't have to ask 5, 6 and 7 year olds to pay as full competitive members, as even if they are training 3 or more hours a week I don't think they quite rank with the senior gymnasts who train 20+ hours and compete in several major competitions a year. (Some of the 7 and 8 year olds are "borderline" so I will have to err on the side of caution and ask their parents for the £20 membership to make sure they don't inadvertantly fall foul of the rules).

[Gingerheid]

...honestly thought that anyone who competes at any level or type of competition is competitive!
You see now you're just speaking common sense. That'll never do nowadays:( .

It's a strange way of doing it. I thought they'd go the other way, by trying something along the lines of including anyone who performs in public (specifying the types of event), to catch good display teams etc.

Cathy - pity. I'll need to be more careful whereabouts in the country I get moved to next time I change job :)

[Chris Adams]

:mad: I havent been on the forum for over a month! Nice to see everyone's mad about the fee's going up again! While were talking about things going up, I just heard that everyone with have to refresh their Child Protection Courses after 3 years.....more money!

[Chris Adams]

I think that everybody should know that British Gymnastics want every club in Great Britain to affiliate ALL their Toddlers at £7.50 each. This includes babies, crawlers and all those kids that attend "Pay As You Go" sessions.

Nearly all these kids that attend such classes dont even come on a regular basis, they dont particpate in structured gym classes, they just PLAY.

How does everyone feel about this now?

[Vivien Gourlay]

Maybe the time has come to establish a two tier system for gymnastics.

A Federation dealing with all General & Recreational aspects of the sport - largest membership group.

An Association working for the "Elite" Competitive area of gymnastics.

"Together we stand - divided we fall."

A United Kingdom Gymnastics Federation that encompasses Scotland, Wales, Ireland and England. With a membership such as this would have we should not have any problem getting funding or sponsorship. Festivals and "Tournaments" would generate a lot of interest and money.

The rest can look after themselves.

[Gingerheid]

Chris, before getting too mean as regards splashing the cash, I think you should carefully consider the wonderful uses these babies and toddlers' £7.50s will go towards.

- The very excellent and expensive national programme for mums and tots, and the prohibitive costs of foreign travel for toddler national squads attending international competitions

- The high costs of insuring mums & tots, given the inherent risk underwriters perceive in such a dangerous activities as 'follow the leader' and 'choo choo train'

- Retaining 'top ten category one' governing body status for BAGA, something eight out of ten toddlers rated as very important or quite important in a recent survey

- Plugging the gap arising from the bitter blow of government freezes on toddler sports funding

I am pretty certain you will find that the majority of mums & tots will fully understand the benefits of a "modern" BAGA. They will doubtless support fully, including financially, the "Investors in Change" programme that will enable BG to provide the professional services mums & tots need, while constantly striving to improve against identifiable performance indicators.

Or not.

BG is providing a service at a cost that is not appropriate to the majority of the members paying for it. Cost needs to be one of those identifiable performance indicators they mentioned in the 'justifying increased fees' message, and BG are failing on it miserably.

[Vivien Gourlay]

We have to seriously think about all this. As far as the Pre-school membership goes if you divide £7.50 by 12 it comes out at .625 pence a month. For what the children as receiving in return for this it is not at all expensive. It is a sign of the times, we get nothing for nothing and just because they are little children, it does not mean that the service they are getting should not be paid for. If you took them to ballet class what would it cost you? If they went to music lessons each week what would it cost you? Frankly, I am of the opinion that this membership deal is saving clubs a lot of money in insurance costs and public liability costs.

Given the costs of all other activities adults, young people and children can do these days, gymnastics does not come out as the most expensive. But it will be the most beneficial to the participant in the long run.

Interest rates keep rising but everybody is still spending. British Gymnasts have been developing rapidly over the past years and is now making serious progress towards olympic recognition and all without complete government backing. The lottery was to be the saviour of all sports but this is dwiddling rapidly. Where are we to get the money from to keep our sport at the top of the tree?

Maybe if the Clubs pushed their local authorities, councillors and Members of Parliament to help at the local level we would not struggle to pay the BGA membership and keep our clubs running. This in turn would benefit the Associations since the Government do not seem able to help at that level but can be seen to put their money and energies into the development of coaches and clubs with facilities that can cater for the masses of children who would love to take part.

I am just throwing around some ideas for you all to chew on. I do not like increases anymore than the next person but I am sure when it is all broken down it hardly comes to enough money to buy a packet of "fags" or a pint of beer and what is better for the public at large?

[Gingerheid]

While the membership fee may be cheap in terms of the total service being provided (by the club and BG), the vast majority of the service is being provided by the club (in this case).

We have to look to see if the fee is cheap in terms of that part of the service being provided by BG.

The part of the service being provided by BG does include the public liability cover and parts of the insurance cost. But in this case the activity under discussion is effectively a playgroup and not a high risk sport. BG are also keen to point out that their membership covers so much more than just insurance, but these are members who can't benefit from much more!

On the other point, I do agree that clubs should push for funding from all available sources. In the long run it may be better if it is the clubs that do this, as they are the people directly providing the bulk of the service.

[Vivien Gourlay]

I just wish to state that people working with small children under 5 are actually doing a tremendous amount of work in EVERY aspect of coaching. Although it comes under the heading of "PLAY" and a lot of things can come under that heading, it is as much work for the coach and the participant, if not more, as the Club or Senior Club Coach.

If the coaches undertaking this coaching work are doing it properly and sewing the fundamental seeds of good physical activity, then we have children who are capable of moving into and enjoying whatever sporting activity they may turn their hand to.

There are, of course, the unscrupulous few who reap much benefit financially while giving very little in return to their charges. Parents are very niave and unless they have seen a top class "Pre-school" and yes, dare I say it "GYMNASTICS" class then they would be none the wiser of what their little ones were actually capable of while having FUN in the GYM.

GYMNASTICS - definition - All physical movement; A system of training by exercises devised to strengthen the body.

This is what we are doing with the little ones in a creative, social, physical, intellectual and educational format which rolled into one means structured FUN! The real fun only comes to the front if it is structured and not mindless activity.

Over the 20 years I have been coaching pre-schoolers I have watched the decline of confident little children arriving to take part and now have to work twice as hard to help these children to gain the confidence to even speak their name out loud or to take another persons hand. Such is the society that we are bringing these little children into. They also find it very hard to speak a very simple word in the English language - that of "Thank You" when given a reward at the end of each class.

I think that this area of gymnastics has everything to offer and I believe that those working in this area for the good of the children and sport in general but most of all recognising gymnastics talent in its raw state and nurturing it properly, should be rewarded greatly for their efforts. If paying a small fee to the British Assocation helps this to become the norm then I am all for it.

We should not be selling ourselves short we are the foundation of Gymnastics and Sports in Britain.

[Gingerheid]

I agree with everything above;the fact that the skills involved change from supporting difficult moves to things like trying to ensure nobody legs it out the class make the activity absolutely no less worthwhile.

But I'm still missing the link between this and BG needing more money for it that they weren't getting before! (And these fees won't help the participants appreciate their coaches:)!)

There are things like the coaching courses, but you would have hoped that the fees charged to the participants would have been sufficient to cover the costs involved in running them.

[Lucy]

I'm seriously unimpressed with the lack of comment from BG on this subject they have made no effort to justify the increases on here or anywhere else. I'm sure I'm not alone in being an unpaid coach (anyone know the figures on this?) is BG trying to drive us out completely.

[Gingerheid]

As far as I am aware (prepared to stand corrected) the only justification ever provided came in the form of this message (http://www.british-gymnastics.org/cms/publish/article_608.shtml) on the website, which was included with the magazine in the same wording.

To me much of this document related to worrying political correctness that we apparently can't afford, mixed with positive sounding buzz-words (progress and modernisation) that in fact have no meaning when used in relation to a sports governing body.

[Lucy]

It strikes me as the sort of talk that managers like to hear...it sounds positive without actually really giving you any useful information...do we have some highly paid PR people employed at BG perchance?

So due to the possibility of being sued and the possibility of losing lottery funding we pay a massive %age rise.

So if no one is sued and the lottery funding doesn't drop off do we get a refund?

[Chris Adams]

This thread is definetly growing by the minute!

[somersault]

Maybe there should be a BG no claims bonus! Up to 60% discount for 5 years trouble free gymnastics. ;)

[somersault]

Personally, I would like the cost of BG membership to be transparent, with the costs of insurance and the contribution to the organisation being shown as seperate elements.

Silly me

After looking a bit harder (I am very bored today) It appears that insurance is free! So ignore this question.

[Gingerheid]

Maybe there should be a BG no claims bonus! Up to 60% discount for 5 years trouble free gymnastics. ;)
I'm a bit worried at this idea It sounds like car insurance.

If you are a male and under 25 you'll get hammered :D

[Gingerheid]

After looking a bit harder (I am very bored today) It appears that insurance is free! So ignore this question.
Somebody is paying for it; untimately us. And this cost was listed as one of the causes of the increase in membership fees. As BG say they have got a good deal, perhaps it would be good if they told us what this is so that we could reassure ourselves.

[Chris Adams]

Just in case you didnt know, British Gymnastics has now dropped its idea of charging £7.50 for "Pay as You Go" users entering a registered gymnastics club. Clubs only have to pay BGA membership if they are participating in a structured gymnastics class led by a qualified BGA Coach.

Good news! & very welcome, thank you BGA. :D Youve got it right at last!

[Vivien Gourlay]

Will we all get this information sent out to us? Soon I hope.

Wonder what made them change their minds.

[Elliot]

the increase doesn't bother me as my club pays my fees since I judge for them.
it is really expensive though if you compete or judge at a high level.

[Chris Adams]

:( Oh dear, we are off to a good start in 2005, where are all the coaches membership renewals? As the BAGA have had to increase coaches membership fees they cant be that hard up then?

Are the coaches insured as 99% of coaches havent paid their membership fee yet? Whats the excuse this time, its great for us coaches as we keep the money in our bank accounts longer, Happy New Year BAGA.

[Jen]

I seem to remember the renewals dont normally appear for a good few months into the new year....does this mean we are all uninsured at the moment or do they assume we will renew membership so cover us for the moment?

Anyone from BG got an answer?

Im not paying £60 for membership if im not getting the whole years worth!

[Anita]

My daughters are both getting worried too - it's not just because of their coaching but they both still compete and have competitions coming up ......!

Also we have our National Qualifier next month and clubs are supposed to send in a copy of their BGA affiliations with the entered gymnasts highlighted on them but only a handful of the clubs who have entered have had their lists from the BGA. Are we allowed to take their affiliation on good faith?

[Gingerheid]

I'm not going to worry! Nor would I be too bothered about hurrying them up. If they ever decide they want the money; fine. If they don't; fine too!

In the meantime; I won't be phoning and desperately begging them to take my money or anything like that :D

Though the the words that pop into my head though are 'mismanagement' and 'financial'. I mean, there must have been indications which would have lead them to believe that they might have been wanting to get themselves arranged to ask lots of people for money about this time? The fact that it happens every year and all that?

I thought they were supposed to be short of money? Or... maybe they are still trying to scrape enough together to pay for the stamps :(

[Lucy]

Did you ever get a reply about membership and coaching quals being valid. I have been told that you need to be a member for at least 1 in every 5 years to keep your quals valid but this was BGs opinion a couple of years ago so it's probably worth getting that confirmed in writing by them.

[Gingerheid]

Made one half-hearted attempt at not getting through to the person I needed to speak to then never asked the question again... as I found a club to go to I needed to carry on paying the full whack anyway, in case I do coach from time to time.

[Chris Adams]

:( Its just I thought that BAGA was short of money, I agree with Gingerheid. The renewals should have been sent out weeks ago & by the way has anyone had their Gymnasts Membership packs yet. I paid for a club I run in October & weve had zilcho from BAGA.

[Dave]

Dunno if this might help out but bout a month ago i called BAGA up for an update on my membership as i paid it back in October - i finally recieved it bout 2 weeks ago - but when i spoke to the girl at BAGA on the phone she said they were struggling to get all the gymnasts memberships out, i have a feeling the coaches will be done after the gymnasts - if u ask me very poor management ! but then again we dont know what sort of budget and man power they are dealing with so until i know i'll cut them some slack but surely if they have this mess every year you'd think they would be prepared better year after year !

[Anita]

This is another argument for a "rolling" system instead of a cut-off date. They couldn't manage last year. If they had a rolling system they would have so many a month, over twelve month, to do instead of the major proportion in October and the rest in January (sorry perhaps we're talking January and April here!!!!!). Going to ring tomorrow because of the competing coaches from our club to find out whether they will be "legal" for the competition if the renewals haven't even been sent out. Will keep you posted.

[Ruthie]

another question is as coaches are we covered to take gymnasts to compertisions as we have not renewed are membership. we have gymnasts going to a compertition in 2 weeks, will i be covered to coach them?

[Chris Adams]

I would think that technically if you havent paid youre not covered but that goes for 99% of all coaches in Great Britain except for the Life Members & Hon Members. I should ring 01952 820330 and push 5 for "membership" and ask BGA.

Its January 11th & still no renewals from BGA & still no membership packs....what's going on?

Only 9 months to the next gymnasts renewals...

[Gingerheid]

Well - they've asked for it :) Gulp. All £60 worth :(

Is there a prize for anyone that can manage to not confetti the contents of the envelope? :D It's just - it's the first year I haven't managed to destory the contents of the package without actually getting inside it!

[Anita]

Think yourself lucky - my bill will be £104.50! :eek: .

As No 1 daughter is a student who's only income is her student loan I pay all things gymnastic for her - but it would be unfair to make No 2 daughter pay her own just because she works: so I pay it all. That's £90 for joint membership (thank heavens neither has left home). Then there's my £14.50 membership so I can sit at a table and judge .......:rolleyes:

[*Sarah*]

Think yourself lucky - my bill will be £104.50!Does your club not pay your membership - well your daughters anyway.
How many coaches out there, who regularly coach for a club, have to pay their own insurance and/or course fees?

[Anita]

No - our club doesn't pay the membership fees: any money is earmarked for new equipment as some of our original stuff was ancient! They've recently started paying for the coaching courses but up until 18 months ago we had to pay that too! I had a very expensive time a couple years' ago when my youngest did her ACC course and then about 7 months later they both did their CC course. It wasn't just the expense of the courses (£160 each if I recall) it was spending two weekends driving 2½ hours each way (on both days) ferrying them and some gymnasts (we needed both cars so hubby had to lose two Saturdays' worth of overtime) for the course.

I'm sure our club aren't alone out there, the smaller clubs are usually the same: bigger clubs usually mean bigger incomes. Until a couple of years' ago I thought all clubs were the same in this respect. Silly me! :rolleyes:

[Ruthie]

i have to pay my own coaching cause, judging course and insurence. we got to claim back some of the money for the causes but still it is expencive and as i do it volentarily and am a student there is no way to get the money back. i can luckly get joint membership with my sister but still that is nearly £50 each and we are both students.

[Chris Adams]

:eek: One of my coaches came up to me tonight and asked if our club could pay her membership renewal, she was very shocked by the latest increase in full members fees. From £46 to £60. She told me that she couldnt afford it! I said that the club would look into it for her.

I think that there should be a rate for students in full time education, they struggle to pay any bill due to our very bad government. Perhaps BGA should introduce this?

I hear on the grapevine that many clubs are upset with BGA over the Club Registration price....£30 last year & this year £180:mad: Can BGA please anyone these days?

[Jen]

Well i've now moved from a club that always paid my insurance and all my coaching courses for me, to one which I dont think wants to pay anything.

I do think that if as a coach (and student!) you are coaching voluntarily for many hours a week, it is fair to see the £60 paid by the club, however I understand totally that the clubs now can't afford it! 600% increase in club registration fee, theres no way they can pay the coaches membership as well.

Someone did mention something about getting tax relief or something as it is professional membership and required for my full-time occupation (studying Coaching Science). But have no idea if this is true, or if theres any point as I don't earn enough in a year to pay tax at all anyway.

It's all just helping me in my decision to leave this country at the earliest date possible. I'll take my skills elsewhere!

[Jasmine Lee]

I paid for my both my coaching courses and memberwhip whilst the club paid for my judging. I don't mind paying because we are quite a small club ( we mainly work for the leisure centre) and all squad trampolining is free coaching, we had to do it this way to get the best hall hire rates. We don't mind not being paid for these sessions but the increase has really annoyed me, I'm a student and find it impractical to charge an extra £14 not to mention that mandatory declaration thingy. We are getting less for our money yet footing the bill for unnecessary actions. One to mind how much time, money and effort was wasting trying to change trampolining to trampoline gymnastics.

[Gingerheid]

Some people might be able to get tax relief on their BG subs, but at the very least you'd have to be getting income from a source where you were required to pay them.

I think the majority of us would struggle to argue that the entire subscription was exclusively work related though!

The very most any tax relief would be worth to most people would be £13. 20, but of course you would have had to have paid tax to get a refund.

I don't know if BG have registered with the IR. I think the list is mainly full of educational, financial, legal and medical bodies!

[Elliot]

If each section of gymnastics instated their own individual governing bodies i.e if the BTF was brought back for trampolining, and enough members left BG to join the new associations due to lower costs, BG would be forced to let them enter BG competitions due to the reduced number of entries - this would make competitions financially impossible for BG.

[Chris Adams]

We paid in December & still nothing! Great service! Nearly 3 months now.

[Chris Adams]

:eek: Hi, We still havent had 1 membership pack yet, my last reply to the forum was on 15th Feb 2005, two months have gone by & still nothing in the post? What kind of service do you call this BAGA? It is very poor service especially when youve paid to get nothing! Its nearly April & BAGA have had our money for over 4 months & nothing for it. The gymnasts, parents are very upset about this. We ring up & are told it will be in the post in two weeks, but still nothing. No wonder no one wants to pay BAGA Membership if you dont get anything for it?

TERRIBLE!

[Elliot]

I have the same problem. I had my renewal form sent off in January and still haven't had anything back.

[Gingerheid]

What hope for an organisation that can't even ask for it's money though?

[Chris Adams]

Our members of our club have now been waiting for over 4 months for a Gymnast Membership Pack from British Gymnastics. No bad for £14.50 & nothing for it? Anybody else had problems with BAGA regarding Membership Packs? We think that 4 months is taking the biscuit do you?:mad:

[Chris Adams]

:rolleyes: Guess what? We have just had our BAGA Membership Packs delivered to our gymnasts! Congratulations go to the BAGA for taking over 4 months to deliver them. Well done, great job.

With kind regards

LYNXGYM

[Gingerheid]

PPS - Helen. I definitely want that club database now if that's what we're going to be paying!

Hi Gingerheid

With regards to a club database, there is a possibility that we will be getting a new 'all singing & dancing' database in the near future as part of the modernisation process.

So watch this space and i will put your comments forward.

Helen

Is this still happening? Information about clubs is still awful hard to come by. (including from a purely selfish point of view - I might be moving again :) )