Payment

[Elliot]

does anyone think that judges should be paid for the time they spend at competitions?

[Laura]

as far as i know at my club the judges at our competitions dont get paid but i do know they always leave with a bottle of wine!

[DJC]

I don't think judges should be paid to judge. This would mean that people would become judges for money, not necessarily because they want to. However, it would be nice if it didn't cost them anything to judge at a competition, so I say travelling and accommodation costs...

[Elliot]

Yeah I think that is a good idea. I judged at a Grades competition in Bridgend a while ago. I live about an hour and a half drive away from Bridgend and the car parking cost £4.00. A lot of the judges complained on the officials comment form at the end of the day!!

[Sue]

I think judges should get travel and subsistence expenses - how else can you justify asking someone to give up their time to judge at competitions? They shouldn't be out of pocket by helping out - competitions couldn't be run without them!

[Elliot]

ok so we've heard what some people think about judges. what about coaches? Obviously they should be paid as coaching has a lot more responsibility with it than judging. Head coaches at clubs can basically take what they want of whatever is left after any costs they have to pay. I get paid £5 for every session I coach cause I'm not qualified yet. I've heard of some coaches who get about 4 times that at the same level. Also I don't really think that BG should enforce the rules that people must have the relevant qualification to judge or coach. At a high level, grade 2 or 1 then it is obvious that advanced skills are needed which can only be obtained throught courses. Basically people can learn the basics of coaching and judging in their clubs. This would save officials and BG a lot of money.

[Lucy]

It would also save you from having to wait for bloomin bg to send you the results!!!!!:mad: Still waiting from October and I know there are people who have been waiting a lot longer

[Steve Adamson]

what level of insurance have you got if you are taking payment for sessions but don't have a coaching qualification?

[Elliot]

not sure exactly...ummmm....have to ask lisa about that one... it may be none.

[Sarah]

I think the minimum is associate insurance for if you coach below club coach level. If you become a club coach or a judge you have to be have full membership.

[Elliot]

oh thats all right then. I have full membership since I judge.

[Steve Adamson]

to follow that logic there is no need for any coaching qualifications, anyone could just pay out for a full membership and be let loose to coach. I haven't checked but I suspect that if you havn't got a coaching qualification your insurance wouldn't cover you in the event of an injury to someone you were coaching. If you are coaching under the supervision of a qualified coach I don't think there would be a problem as they would be responsible for what you do. If you are the only one coaching I would check up on how or if you are covered.
In respect to payment if the club is paying you directly as an unqualified coach it might be better if they put the cost of each session towards a coaching course for you, then its less of an overpriced sting when you come to do it.

[Elliot]

sounds like a good idea, but I can't do the coaching course yet since I'm not 18. i don't coach on my own anyway.

[Anita]

Just to correct Sarah - you only have to be an associate member to judge: not a full member. It's a direct associate membership runnings 1st Jan to 31st Dec and costs £14.50 if that's all you do (judge that is). Full membership costs £60 so if that's what you've paid Elliot then you're a full member, if you've only paid £14.50 then you're an associate member :D

If Elliot is coaching without a qualified club coach present - big NO NO :eek: . He won't be insured at all.

[Gingerheid]

I think it would be just wrong if judges were paid for their time.

Expenses and so on more tricky, up a a point yes, but generally I think the more money that's involved in things, the more things can somehow just manage to get more unpleasant.

I don't think judges should have to pay anything at all for membership required purely on account of being a judge - if BG want judges to have membership they should create a Judging membership that doesn't cost anything (or cover anything else).

[Anita]

I believe our region are the only one that give judges a set fee for judging (but I might be wrong) - £15 - plus travelling expenses. Can't get rich on that. It also usually means giving up a whole Sunday. This is just for regional competitions not invitationals, friendlies etc. I judge at invitationals and friendlies as well as regional (I have also judged outside our region).

When judging for other regions I'm quite happy as long as I'm not out of pocket (ie they cover the cost of my travelling there) and get well fed and watered! Same goes for judging in county competitions outside my County (our county don't hold any acro competitions: shame). This is because our club aren't competing and I'm driving there purely to judge but wouldn't be there otherwise.

For smaller invitationals and friendlies I don't expect anything but food and drink (can't survive without sustenance), especially if our club is competing and I'd be there anyway.

I judged at the South Region's NDP last year and the lunch was brilliant - so good I've volunteered to go again this year: just for the grub! ;)

[Dave]

I believe that if the organisers of a competition want a judge to attend they should at least cover there expenses for the day

[Kelly Jordan]

Ok here we go, my thoughts on this :S ...


I agree that judges shouldn't be out of pocket for helping out, and that it would be nice if they could be paid for giving up their time aswell as travelling costs being funded by someone else ... But who is that someone else who is going to cough it up???
We all know that our sports aren't the richest of sports, and like someone said earlier, where more money is involved the less pleasant things become - this is totally true.
To start paying out to so many people, would put up the price of the sport for everyone taking part, and for some people that may cause a problem.
However i think it is totally ridiculous the amount of money that judges have to pay to judge ... Membership i'm talking about ... Now that is totally wrong. It's not like you need to be insured or anything to judge, and it doesn't cost much to make your little plastic membership card ... Judges should have a separate, free, membership!!!
There we go ... Kelly's said her piece, we can all sleep at night now!!!

[Clarabel]

Depends on the level, I think. Some competitions, say veterans', are friendly, fun and above all short. People don't argue over the scores because at the end of the day people are there to take part. In big competitions where the judges are there all day seeing all different age categories of children from 9am through to 5pm and seeing 3 appeals in the day from disgruntled 'gymnastics moms' then why on earth shouldn't they be paid for this - they are doing a service of benefit to the children not of benefit to themselves. A nominal rate would be OK and should just tack on to competition entry fees - in this sort of competition there are hundreds of entrants so the fee per person is marginal at worst.

Most of our friendlies fall through for lack of judges rather than lack of competitor interest. Many of the judges I know also compete, so how about a free entry in their category in exchange for judging another category? Or a reduced fee per head if you bring a judge with your club (judge gives services for free this time but gets something back in that their club can afford to send all their gymnasts). It doesn't need to be money, but there should always be something to say 'you gave up your time for me, thank you' about the competition.

There are lots of ways to pay for it so long as you are still talking about a token payment rather than a market wage.

Would judges then have to declare this as taxable income, though? It could get very messy!

[Anita]

For friendlies and invitationals, which are usually "local" (within the County or Region) I'm quite happy to give up my time as long as I'm fed and watered! Even more so if my club are there anyway. Most friendlies and invitationals are club fund raising events anyway.

For a "structured" competition, ie Regional (or County) then I feel the payment of travelling expenses should be offered, although I have known this be turned down occasionally.

In our Region for acro clubs have to either nominate a judge (be it from their own club or from elsewhere) or pay a fee towards getting a judge in from elsewhere (usually out of region). This helps subsiding their travelling expenses.

I judge in all the above competitions and enjoy it - I even judge out of region if asked. I'm in Southampton on Saturday for the South region's NDP and was in London for their NDP on Sunday (Hi anyone reading this who was there: I had a great day - nice people and even though an important competition, it was friendly with a great atmosphere) The only downer on the day was having to drive through a flippin' blizzard on the way there:eek: : roads were clear on the way home though :) .

[batonstar]

I don't see why BG would not pay their judges to judge - after all they are working for them.
I come from mainly a baton twirling background and our association pays each judge a set fee for judging and so many pence per mile for travelling by car, or what ever they paid out to get to the competition - i.e. air fares, taxi fares etc.