The Games

[Jasmine Lee]

What did everyone think of the judging in the trampolining last night? just wondered because I thought the girls did really well but I was giving substantially lower scores than those awarded (especially deductions for incorrect landings) and the commentator kept mentioning leg positioning rather than the whole aesethics of the performance i.e. straight arms ang correct lift into skills such as the swivel hips.


ps did anybody recognise any of the judges?

[Kelly Jordan]

Lets just face it, it wasn't "proper" judging - i think if the judges had marked "properly" the low scores may have made the event less enjoyable!
It was all in good nature: to the people who don't know about trampolining it just showed a glimpse of it, to us that do know about the sport we can tell what was going on as far as the generous judging is concerned!
It must have been very difficult for the judges, especially with the focus obviously being on performing the moves in one routine (particularly the front somersault) rather than actual form!
However i can also see this point about little children feeling hard done by when they perform well, but do not get those marks!
Hmmm maybe they should just be put in bed before inappropriate things can be shown on TV!!!
(don't worry i'm only joking!)
And see you in a week Jasmine :)
-x-X-x-

[peter edge]

just wondering whether it will increase numbers of adult participants at clubs, lets face it "if they can do it, so can I!!" attitude springs to mind.http://www.british-gymnastics.org/memberforum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Clarabel]

I think the scores should have been a bit lower because the celebs could have been told to expect scores of around whatever therefore they wouldn't be thinking they were hard done by. It is not as if they have had enough experience to know whether the score is good or bad, is it? I don't think they should have been penalised for every little detail but standard deductions for clearly pants form should apply. Couldn't understand why they all bounced so low, given that more height = far more time to get the moves in.

[Janice]

I was so pleased when I heard trampolining was included in this years games. Well at least until I saw the level of training and the supports used for the somi's. One poor girl landed on the back of her head, another fell with the coach nearly standing on her head before falling over the top of her, all I can say about that is it was a good job the trampoline was at floor level.

Then to top it off on the night Channel 4 show coverage of the girls drinking wine in preperation for the event - was this really a good idea? NO!

:eek: We then get to see a range of no skill whatsoever ranging from just about landing a very poorly performed somi to poor old Mel smashing her face in on the end rail frame pads. It was evident from the training sessions broadcast that none of the girls were capable of performing such a move confidently or consitantly yet they were allowed to endanger their own lives by performing the somis with no safety precautions live. I very much doubt mel had landed a somi at all during her training, why was no safety mat used? and even worse, after the planet had witnessed how dangerous trampolining could be Channel 4 uses a freeze frame of mels face landing at the closing credits. Thats excellent publicity for encouraging newcomers to our wonderful and exciting sport.

:confused: The comentry was awful, top national coaches and international judges were used, WHY when all they wanted was pretend judging and poor performance. It gave an unrealistic impression of our sport which I feel has not done us any favours, all the other sports were judged fairly and technically.

Was the coach even qualified to coach trampolining, I'm under the impression it was a gymnastics coach, and even so, where were the safety measures and supports during training.

Oh I could go on about this for months and probably will

(thought I'd stur up a few forum members and invoke something worthy of a good debat):D

[Clarabel]

It was evident from the training sessions broadcast that none of the girls were capable of performing such a move confidently or consitantly yet they were allowed to endanger their own lives by performing the somis with no safety precautions live. I very much doubt mel had landed a somi at all during her training, why was no safety mat used?


I was very surprised indeed that none of the spotters was holding a throw-in mat, particularly for the somis. If someone had gone seriously wrong where on earth was the capability to do something about it? A coach can see very clearly when a somi has gone wrong in the air and would choose to throw in a mat if need be so it wouldn't have spoiled the televisual effect, and those that were doing well would have had the chance to land under their own steam.

I know it makes 'better' TV to have them do more advanced moves but surely it would have been preferable for them to do some simpler moves and have good quality form. Adult clubs have enough trouble already (in my experience) with people turning up and wanting to somersault after 3 weeks and this example can only make that worse.

[Janice]

I have just noticed that I am registered on the forum as a Junior Member. Just to make everyone aware I am not pretending to be younger than I am. I should be registered as a senior member. I am a qualified trampoline coach at club level with 23 years behind me. I am also training to become a TC coach tutor.

[Kelly Jordan]

Ahhh Janice ... The type of "member" has nothing to do with you as a person hehehe it's how many posts you have made on the forum!!!
Just thought i would let you know!!!
(take into account i am just a 15 year old bouncer with no qualifications what-so-ever ... yet!!)
-x-

[Gingerheid]

just wondering whether it will increase numbers of adult participants at clubs, lets face it "if they can do it, so can I!!" attitude springs to mind.http://www.british-gymnastics.org/memberforum/images/icons/icon7.gif

I hope so... I really hope so! There's not nearly anything like enough adult trampolining around!

[Jasmine Lee]

HaHa Kelly you are hilarious.

I teach adult trampolining and frankly battle with some of the participants about jewellery,i have had to refuse entry to the class because one girl couldn't physically remove her rings, yet the games clearly showed the contestants wearing ear studs etc, I think this disregard to the rules is unfair to all the coaches who enforce the NO-JEWELLERY policy, especially checking the concealed and more dangerous piercings i.e. belly button and nipple area.

Also I know the plain white socks rule is silly ( my friend had to change hers at g2 validation once because they had a tiny grey line around the top) but surely it wouldn't have killed to wear white ones rather than strippy or coloured ones, think only Tamara wore white because her leotard was white.

I consider myself to be fairly strict on learning new moves to ensure I do not rush the performer and injure them. Many come in and tell you they can already somersault and are dying to show you (normally learnt on a garden trampoline landing on various body parts excluding the feet) I always say no until they can show me the proper progressions and they show consistant levels of skill at each stage to the best of that individuals ability before the next stage regardless of age.
I do believe that there are so many brilliant trampoline coaches out there that a suitable one could be found for "The Games" to present an accurate representation of trampolining talent, and yes I do agreed that the hand support was dreadful did anyone see the one were he nearly let someone land on their neck, terrible takeoff and he only just noticed

[DJC]

It's TV. They like dangerous stuff, funny stuff, interesting stuff.

Did anyone die? No. Was everyone actually completely fine? Yes.

As for turning away people from the sport, if it does then those people should consider a career in knitting or something. Every sport has accidents, possible injuries, pain. Should they have censored every part of the games where someone hurt themselves slightly because it might turn people away from sport? No. Craig falling over on water skiing (which actually hurts a lot) or getting concussed in sumo, or Anna falling over in hurdling, or falling off of her bike, or Chesney falling on the ice (many times,) or any of them slapping into the water in diving... It happens, it made it interesting, it makes sport interesting. If that was all censored, 2 things might happen:

No-one would want to participate because it's not exciting enough.
People would participate because it looks nice and safe, and then realise it's not for them because they might hurt themselves.

I'm still baffled as to why you care... Is it because your gymnasts aren't as good as the Games competitors who threw fear to the wind and gave it their best shot?

[Kelly Jordan]

Nice one DJC!!!

[Clarabel]

Ahhh Janice ... The type of "member" has nothing to do with you as a person hehehe it's how many posts you have made on the forum!!!
Just thought i would let you know!!!


These things always bug me because on many forums people will write any old drivel just to attain the next stage of membership. Some forums I know award little trophies by your name for prolific posting, and people are so desperate to acquire them that there are pages and pages of the same threads.

[Janice]

Firstly,I wanted to clarify my senior status to show that I was an adult, totally aware of health and safety issues. Its funny how when you grow up you see the danger in everything, including the very dangerous hobby of knit one perl one knitting races, the amount of blistered fingers and blurred vision in that hobby is out of control.

Secondly, I wanted to make a point about the safety standards, do you find it acceptable to coach somis with no supports or mats? I am sure this is not an approved BG method of coaching, and besides does it not hurt when you land on your head! I know for certain that when I trust other people with my children they are qualified and competant at the job they are about to perform, and had I seen that at any club I would not let my kids participate.

In response to DJC, the ability of our members is irrelevant. What is important is that the skills they can perform have been coached in a safe and positive environment, using the correct progressions as defined necessary by BG.
....And if someone had of died or seriously injured themselves whilst performing in the games would your response of been the same?

(am I making an enemy yet! Please dont hit me, I'll give you my lunch money)

[Lucy]

I would agree that people (particularly children) should not be taught somis without mats and support as required. I have seen it happening and haven't been able to do anything about it. I have been suggesting that people using sports facilities ask about the qualifications of the people who are teaching their kids. The only bit of the games I saw they were using a mat but I didn't see enough to really comment. I gather from other peoples comments that a lot of people disagreed with the coaching methods used.
Have you got some specific concerns Janice as you seem quite worried about the safety issue?

[DJC]

....And if someone had of died or seriously injured themselves whilst performing in the games would your response of been the same?
Yes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk./1/hi/wales/south_east/4130223.stm

I tell you what, let's ban electricity. And water.

[Laura]

Secondly, I wanted to make a point about the safety standards, do you find it acceptable to coach somis with no supports or mats? I am sure this is not an approved BG method of coaching, and besides does it not hurt when you land on your head! I know for certain that when I trust other people with my children they are qualified and competant at the job they are about to perform, and had I seen that at any club I would not let my kids participate.

Firstly: I'm not really sure where you're getting all this from!? Did you even watch this programme!? If you had I'm sure you would have noticed that support and mats were used! There was not enough time in the shows to show the 8 hours of training which I'm am confident contained a whole lot more physical support in these moves. But when it comes to the TV programme- what are the general public going to want to watch- Colin holding them all, doing the moves for them, or celebrites bouncing around and falling over!? I choose the second one- because it is entertaining- that after all is what this program is for- entertainment!

Secondly: I am also confident that Colin is proficient in coaching these skills, and would not allow these girls to attempt them if he was not happy they were going to be safe. The aim of these skills and routines was to complete them most importantly, not doing all the pre requisites perfectly before moving on, this wasn't necessary, the big skill was the main aim and what they were working for. This is not standard BG coaching- the whole purpose is nailing these big skills and this is what they work towards, they can afford to let them throw the skills (safely) because after the competition it doesn't matter anymore, not like standard BG coaching, where development of skills is important.

[sazza1989]

Could i just say .... I agree with DJC!

Come on ... its a tv programme and it was made for entertainment value. To be quiet honest the only people who are thinking about the safety aspect are trampolinists who know it all anyways it doesnt mean a debate needs to be kicked off about it! The whole point was for them to learn a move that would be entertaining ... would you of been impresed watching seat drops and shape jumps ... dont think so.

I loved the games and thought it was a great show because it was ENTERTAINING! Do you know anything about the other sports e.g speed skating ( maybe they shouldnt of been skating so fast to reduce the risk of injury?!? ) would you have enjoyed them skating round the rink taking about 30 mins to complete it?!?

Anyway had my moan

Sarah :p

[Janice]

Sorry, but from a coaching point of view, in my opinion, from what I saw it was not acceptable coaching. I don't even know if the coach was qualified to coach trampolining. Maybe I just got all hot about nothing as I had spent the day at a TC course banging on about not wearing jewelry and helping new coaches grasp somi progressions and proper supports.

Practice becomes poor when we forget or cease to question the methods and standards used. If questions or concerns are not raised how can we improve? Daring to go against the popular is a crime in itself these days, If thats upsets some people, so be it.

I am only interested in raising the standards.

[sazza1989]

You have already questioned the standards used. Maybe the coaching was unacceptable but I’m not sure to many top trampolining coaches would have volunteered to coach for the games ( unless they knew who the participants were!)

[Gingerheid]

Mmmm... I definitely finally missed out for not having a TV! Wish I had seen the programme that caused all these feelings - here and on http://www.pcallender.co.uk/forum_read_thread.php?messageid=11357 !

[Janice]

Thanks for the link and info Gingerheid - glad to know I am not the only one who has reservations.

And why is it BG's forum is not that interactive!

[Gingerheid]

More people use welcome.to ... maybe because you don't have to find your membership card and register, and then wait until you get authorised...

Or maybe because there's an element of self censorship here. Given that it's BGs forum and they know who you are, some people might not say everything they're thinking!

[Jasmine Lee]

It would have been better if a top trampolinist coach had been approched but then I thought, it is a very a busy time for trampolining when "The Games" coaching would have started, getting ready for the g2 and g1 season not forgetting regional competitons so I am purely guessing many may not have been available.

They may have chosen Colin because he taught the previous games and were totally happy with him, it may not even occur to the programme makers that trampolining is different to gymnastics!

I know many assistant coaches of gymnastics and they say it is totally normal to use the trampoline in their gymnastic sessions( and as socks are not used within the gym, they are not used on the trampoline! something I totally disagree with, especially when I used to teach trampolining parties and children would turn up without socks and the parents would quickly inform you that the proper gym club doesn't use them so their child does not have to...... they get a shock when I explain that is against BAGA code) even though they don't hold the proper trampolining qualification and many are aged 16! Maybe this is a more appropriate factor to address rather than who taught the trampolining at "The Games"

[Laura]

I know many assistant coaches of gymnastics and they say it is totally normal to use the trampoline in their gymnastic sessions( and as socks are not used within the gym, they are not used on the trampoline! something I totally disagree with, especially when I used to teach trampolining parties and children would turn up without socks and the parents would quickly inform you that the proper gym club doesn't use them so their child does not have to...... they get a shock when I explain that is against BAGA code) even though they don't hold the proper trampolining qualification and many are aged 16! Maybe this is a more appropriate factor to address rather than who taught the trampolining at "The Games"

OMG, yes! At my club we always used to do trampolining bare footed, although we were not allowed to use the same trampolines without socks during PE lessons in school time. In the past maybe 6 months though, someone must have made a point of socks being in the BAGA guidelines to the head coach and everyone has to wear socks now at gym if we're on the trampolines.

I don't even know if the coach was qualified to coach trampolining.

Trampoline work is covered in the Female Artistic qualifications.

[Lucy]

OK so trampoline is covered in the gym course but is it taught as an aid to learning gymnastic moves rather than a seperate sport?

[sazza1989]

I did my assistant gymnastics course and was taught elements of trampolining ... not to aid in teaching gymnastics elements. which for a assistant gymnastics coach course may not have been very relevant but we were taught it. Whats to say Colin isnt qualified as a trampolining coach any way??? Are people just speculating?


Sarah :p

[Kelly Jordan]

*Go Sazza* *Go Sazza*

(and no i am not a football hooligan!!!)

[Sarah]

Colin Still is a high performance coach! Ok so it's in gymnastics but how do you think gymnasts learn somis in the first place? Trampolines are used all the time as progressions for gymnastics and I'm sure Colin is quite capable of coaching the simple moves they were doing on the games.

[Janice]

I have it on good authority that Colin is CC qualified in TRA. Something no one seems to know about as all the forums and discussions going on seem to believe he is only qual'd to do gymnastics, me included until now.

Taking this into consideration - where were the hand supports? No sorry, don't want to fire that one up again.

There seems to be many other valid discussions coming from this original thread. I'm off to start one now.....

[Laura]

Taking this into consideration - where were the hand supports?

As i said in a previous post there was not enough time in the shows to show the 8 hours of training which I'm am confident contained a whole lot more physical support in these moves. But when it comes to the TV programme- what are the general public going to want to watch- Colin holding them all, doing the moves for them, or celebrites bouncing around and falling over!? I choose the second one- because it is entertaining- that after all is what this program is for-entertainment!

[sazza1989]

Thank you Laura i so agree with you about the amout of time shown!!! there was only about 5mins maximum shown out of 8 sessions so how do people know that their was no hand support ... and because they were only given 8 sessions wouldnt the least amount of hand support be best to get them ready!?!


Sarah :p

[Helen Webb]

Hi

Just to confirm, that Colin Still does hold a current Trampolining qualification.
Hope that helps get rid of some of the confusion.

Helen

[peter edge]

there was only about 5mins maximum shown out of 8 sessions Does that include the time shown on the digital channels?

[Janice]

I accept that there was only a small percentage of training footage shown in comparision to the amount of training given. I only saw the coverage on terrestrial TV but what I am trying to get across is the fact that until a performer is able to confidently and competantly perform the skill at each level of progression hand support should not be taken away, if you are performing low somis and not landing on your feet you should be kept on a mat with hand supports until you are landing safely and consistantly.

Now then, if I am wrong and have read my coaching and coach tutors manual incorrectly would someone with BG authority please let me know as I'll need retraining.

I know it was for charity and a bit of fun, I'm only commenting on what I saw, maybe those that agree with my point of view are not prepared to comment. Maybe I'm too safety concious!

[Gingerheid]

I expect these things happen, even if they shouldn't. Have you ever watched a student competition? :rolleyes:

[Laura]

I accept that there was only a small percentage of training footage shown in comparision to the amount of training given. I only saw the coverage on terrestrial TV but what I am trying to get across is the fact that until a performer is able to confidently and competantly perform the skill at each level of progression hand support should not be taken away, if you are performing low somis and not landing on your feet you should be kept on a mat with hand supports until you are landing safely and consistantly.

Now then, if I am wrong and have read my coaching and coach tutors manual incorrectly would someone with BG authority please let me know as I'll need retraining.

I know it was for charity and a bit of fun, I'm only commenting on what I saw, maybe those that agree with my point of view are not prepared to comment. Maybe I'm too safety concious!

But Janice, this was NOT standard BG coaching! This was coaching celebrities to be able to do throw these moves, the development of these moves did not matter in the slightest really so long as the end move was achieved- not as with standard coaching where the development of moves is tres important!

[Clarabel]

It's TV. They like dangerous stuff, funny stuff, interesting stuff.

Did anyone die? No. Was everyone actually completely fine? Yes.



This is the sort of thing that worries me, that people will see that these people were not hurt and think that the practices they saw are OK (ie. progressing to somersaults when there is little or no grasp of basic moves). I have asked some questions about my fears over the way a particular child behaves in my mentor coach class to be told not to worry over this individual. If an accident occurs then is the fact that you have been dropping children for years and this is the first one that got hurt, or that it worked OK with the other children going to be a good excuse? Not really! Every individual circumstance counts, and if nobody got hurt that should be down to good practice, not luck.

[DJC]

If they think it's easy cos they saw it on the teevee, go and try it and hurt themselves, then they've learnt a valuable lesson (which most people have learnt by the time they're teenagers anyway.)

Mistakes make good learning material. Stop padding everything up so people can actually hurt themselves once in a while...

[Gingerheid]

Hmmm.... I'm a bit worried by that sentiment.

I'm not suggesting that people should never do anything where there is the slightest possibility of hurting yourself, but trampolines do present the opportunity to do serious harm to yourself.

Yes, at the end of the day, you can break your leg doing a straight bouce (I don't know how I did it either). However, you don't want to make a habit of risking landing on your neck to see if you hurt that.