judging forces people to add difficulty

[john mitchell]

Judging forces people to add difficulty at the expense of good form. In the long run, this is one reason why UK performance is not as good as the best. At grade 3-6 an average form score is 7.8 with a range usually 7.4 to 8.3. This trend continues at the higher grades as judges don't use enough 0 deductions or 4 and 5 deductions. Most competitiors are squashed into the middle. The only way to qualify through the grades is to add tariff because the coaches know that even near perfect moves will still get 1-2 deductions while relatively scappy harder moves will not lose more than 0.3.

Judges should be encouraged to give more low and more high scores to encourage coaches to spend time on form rather than simply building difficulty. That should come later once good form has been established on the easier moves.
Any judges have a view on this?

[Janice]

I'm not a judge, but when I was first learning trampolining 23 years ago we were not allowed to learn a move until we had learnt how to bounce properly, we were then not allowed to move onto a new skill until our current skill was perfect. Everything had to be performed on the cross and not within a metre box. I find that I am now a very disaplined coach and make sure form is not neglected when new skills are taught and make sure the moves are practiced over and over before moving onto a new skill

I'm hoping to do my judging at club level in the next 12mths. I will certainly be marking form correctly, I'm not scared to give 0 or -5 where its due. As long as you can justify your deductions you have nothing to worry about. If judges are only deducting -2 or -3 and what was being judged obviously deserved -5 is anyone going to comment on it? I doubt it as people do not like to rock the boat they go home and moan about it instead.

[Gingerheid]

I agree; you definitely see form marks that are influenced by difficulty and it shouldn't be happening.

[JES]

i agree, at the team gym british finals, many teams, were chucking over messy front fronts, and tuckback tuckback. as well as other moves, it scared me watching it lol. but in the end they got more marks for doing hard moves badly then easier moves well because they got so many extra marks for doing say a front front that it didnt matter if a couple of the kids landed on their bums... wat about the little ones that attempted roundof flik tuk on their heads... its dangerouse! they shouldnt compete moves their not ready for. but then again wen the first run has to b the same u dont want ur team held bak coz one gymnast cant do the run very wel. hmm i dont know!
jes

[BritCheer]

I was one of the judges at the Lancashire Youth Games in Morcambe a few weeks ago, and what i saw was gymnasts pushing their difficulty barrier and i had to award demerits for bad form! So i know what you're talking about. One team that stood out had really decent A and B category moves, clean and presented, and they placed higher a team that were performing B and C moves, the reason? Demerits, i awarded -5 several times, and i had a coach come up to me afterwards and ask why, i told her that a flick where the gymnasts goes back on his elbows and then lands on his knee's isn't really a flick, she soon shut up and went away! Hehe. I'd prefer to see a clean performance with difficulty, but when that difficulty jeapordises the safety of the gymnasts i blame the coaches for pushing their kids too hard, not the judges. Just a thought.

[Clarabel]

Sometimes this is the result of the kids being ready to do the moves, but not anywhere near ready to compete the moves, and this is where the experience of a coach comes in to see that this child is not ready to transfer this move from the training environment to the high pressure environment. Of course I have also seen coaches checking that the gymnasts can perform an isolated move and chucking it into their routine, but it is a different situation being asked to do a leap straight into another leap than being asked just to leap and land and hang about for a bit, especially on beam where you just don't have the time to recover a poor landing before you are back in the air again. A tiny mistake in a move can become a major offline and fall from the beam after 4 moves. They must check that the girls can do the moves back to back before putting them in a routine. We also sometimes get a bit of disillusionment when the gymnasts are using a training aid to let them do lots of reps (trampette, trampoline) and they realise that on the floor their tucks are nowhere near ready to do. You have to get that balance between training reps and training the real thing.
Then there is the pressure to continue to make up a team when they are sick or injured...
I am not saying people don't put in unecessary difficulty, but there are lots of other factors in here too. Parents who are unaware of form are often delighted to see their little darling compete a hideous RO flick tuck-back rather than a lovely 2 cartwheels and a tuck jump because they are just focussed on the "wow" factor. Ech, parents!! ;)

[Elliot]

Yeah that is right...coaches make their kids go for the highest possible tariff they can in their vol to get higher marks...maybe BG should do away with tariff's altogether and just have each round judged on form...it would be a lot easier as fewer judges would be needed on each panel and it would be safer for the kids as they wouldn't have to do moves they didn't feel comfortable with.

sorry for not posting for ages anyway...

Elliot.

[BritCheer]

The tariff's help me assess what level the gymnast should be at! Its levels out the playing field. For example, a kid that can only handspring should not be competing against kids that can yurchenko double back! It isn't fair, but i get what your saying! The tariff system is complicated.