height checks

[hayley easen]

hi all you acro bods !!!

ive got a quick question....

how are height checks carried out in ur region ?

im interest as it can mean winning or losing a medal to some gymnasts

are your region using anything that makes it fair?

[Gina]

Hi Hayley,
The top must reach the collar bone of the base (at least).
If the top only reaches the substancial point (breast bone) of the base, 0.2 is deducted from the artistry score.
Hope this helps.
Gina x

[hayley easen]

thanks for that.....


but what are you using to measure your gymnasts at the comp?

[Anita]

Sorry Gina - but you're wrong! In the immortal words of Arnold Rimmer "wrong, wrong, wrong - absolutely brimming over with wrongability" :p

The new ruling as per NDP6 is that the top must be more than 1 cm above the suprasternal notch of the next tallest person (the base for pairs and the next tallest of a trio) not to have any height deduction (don't know where you got the collar bone bit from - that's NEVER been involved!).

The suprasternal notch is top of the sternum (which is at the base of that little indent at the front of your throat).

If the top is above that notch, but less than 1 cm above, then they get a 0.3 CJP deduction (not from the artistry*)

If they are below the suprastern notch then it is a 0.5 deduction.

For FIG these are the deductions for Juniors - for seniors it is 0.5 and 1.0 respectively.

These are rules as per the new NDP6 - for NDP5 it was 0.2 deduction by the CJP if they were below the suprasternal notch.

*They can also lose on artistry if there is a very substantial difference in size (height and/or body mass).

Our region bought a measuring device rather than use the old "eye and a book". This did have a spirit level on it which helped to ensure it was level, unfortunately the spirit level broke part-way through the competition ....... basically you need something that stands vertical but has a horizontal bar from it that you would measure the top of the top's head and then see whether it reaches the suprasternal notch (or more than 1 cm above) of the next tallest. Different regions have different devices but I know one region that is buying one which costs around £70 (mine cost ours £17 on e-bay!).

I think as long as each region is consistent with their measuring - not just guessing basically - then it's fair to all. I feel they should use something - even if it's only a clipboard with a spirit level on it (to ensure it's not sloping up or down from the top's head) purely because the rules are so "exact" now.

[hayley easen]

thanks anita


that was just what i wanted to know

just because at our last comp they were using a hand on the head and guessing by eye !!! obviously the points taken off are really important to the final score and if the measuring isnt completely exact then there is a question of fairness!!

thankfully this issue was raised at the comp and the region have now ordered a measuring device for future comps

thanks again

[Joe]

I'm sure everyone appreciates your information, Anita, but do you have to be quite so patronising? As far as I can tell my suprasternal notch is located right next to my collarbone. . . so maybe that's where Gina got it from!

[Anita]

Sorry Joe if you take it that way - the comment was meant as a joke! Hence the smilie. If Gina had felt that way then Gina could respond - hopefully she took it the way it was meant, tongue in cheek.

Hayley asked about height checks - I have access to the rules and am involved in complying with them in my region so was merely quoting those rules and the rules say "suprasternal notch" NOT collarbone!

As far as I can tell my suprasternal notch is located right next to my collarbone. . . so maybe that's where Gina got it from!

Skeletons are basically the same but not exactly - my collarbone is just over 1 cm higher than the base of my suprasternal notch.

Hopefully any club using the collarbone as the mark will change because it's unfair on gymnasts who appear to be OK in the gym and then get tariffed in competition.

[Gina]

The NDP does state "suprasternal notch" which I abided by as a coach when putting partnerships together, however we have been penalised in the past for the top not reaching the collarbone of the base, which I have questioned the judges on!!
Now we make sure the top does reach the collarbone instead of the "suprasternal notch" so we cannot be penalised again for it.

I didnt reply to Anita's message as I was pi**ed off at the whole issue. Different regions have different rules even though we all supposed to abide by the same NDP plan. God knows what will happen at British Finals- judges need to get their act together if you ask me!

Gina

[Anita]

Hi Gina

I can understand the annoyance when different people interpret it differently and think it's a good idea of yours to say collar bone in the gym because, hopefully, it will give you that 1cm above the suprasternal notch.

I must admit we have had a few heavy discussions on this issue in our region because a couple of judges had interpreted the FIG guidelines to say 1 cm below the suprasternal notch instead of 1 cm above ie 0.5 deduction if more than 1 cm below and 0.3 if between 1 cm below and the s-notch instead of which it should be: 0.5 if below the s-notch and 0.3 if less than 1 cm above.

Re: The British NDP Finals - the competition organisers have a very good measuring device that they use. The measuring is done under strict conditions in the presence of an independant adjudicator. They've done this for the past few competitions (the recent British and the British Tournament in November) - they even did it at last year's NDP finals. I was just about to add that my daughter was one of them but remembered that they'd just looked at them and sent them away because her top was only 2-3 cm shorter than her! :D

Are you going to the finals Gina?

[Gina]

Yes Im going to Finals Anita, but we've got gymnasts tumbling this year (not on floor).

[Anita]

I'll see you there then.

While I think about: please remind whoever at your club is responsible that the photo permit applications have to be in by Friday 28th April. The form is in the National Competition Handbook.;)